something I noticed in the pieces is that the earlier piece seems to just sound like a typical renaissance piece were as the later actually tries to convey the sadness of the death of the composer. I get this general sense but I am having a hard time finding examples of how the music does or does not relate to the text because it is hard to follow. My questions are: 1. Am I on the right track? 2. What voices should I pay attention to in each piece (soprano, alto, tenor, etc) so that the piece is easier to follow along?
It's hard to say about what voice you should listen to, you kind of need to listen for fragments of the text. If anyone else has strategies that would be helpful please add them.
As to whether you are on the right track, its a reaction paper - there is no right track.
What exactly do you mean by a typical Renaissance piece?
Beware of thinking that Gombert is writing this out of sadness - while he may have been sad, this form of stylized lament was commonplace during this era: see for instance this list in coordination with a concert at UCLA that I found on the internet: http://www.musicology.ucla.edu/humana-concerts.html If you're saying that the later piece reflects a more "human"-centric expression of lament than the early one, you'd need to back that up with specific references in the music as well as a well-tuned argument about what actually constitutes "human"-centered lament and how it could be put forth in the music of the time. Put another way, let's assume Ockeghem wanted to have a human-centric lament, could the systems available to him allowed for it and if so what would it be like versus what it is.
A student writes: I am having a hard time following the words for Gombert. Is it really important that I be able to do so?
My answer: The words are important. As to whather you can follow the words, yes it is diffuclt. Is it really important that you be able to do so? It depends on how important you think the words are to the meaning of the composition and the conveyance or nonconveyance of the emotions in those words.
So, I know that both of the pieces for the paper are motets, but are they both isorhythmic? Second, About the forme fixe of the ockeghem. It says that it's a ballad, with the A, A', B C thing, but I'm confused as to where the break ups are in the piece? I think that A is from misere to joyeusete, and then A' is from misere to bonte, but I can't really figure out B and C. And is that even that important?
My response: You've made a lot of assumptions - first assuming they are both motets, and second that they are isorhythmic. Motets are sacred, non liturgical polyphony for Mass use. Do either of these fit that category?
In terms of finding the breaks in the music and the breaks in the form of the Ockeghem, look to the poetry especially its rhyme scheme and stanzas. This matches the traditional Ballade rhyme scheme: ABABbcbc. The form of the music is as you say: AAB, with breaks in the first stanza from A: "Mort" then A: "En desplays" then B: "Son corps"
Is this important - only insofar as you think it is important. This is a reaction paper. It depends on how important you think the use/nonuse of form is to the meaning of the composition and the conveyance or nonconveyance of the emotions in the piece.
5 comments:
something I noticed in the pieces is that the earlier piece seems to just sound like a typical renaissance piece were as the later actually tries to convey the sadness of the death of the composer. I get this general sense but I am having a hard time finding examples of how the music does or does not relate to the text because it is hard to follow. My questions are:
1. Am I on the right track?
2. What voices should I pay attention to in each piece (soprano, alto, tenor, etc) so that the piece is easier to follow along?
A few responses in no particular order:
It's hard to say about what voice you should listen to, you kind of need to listen for fragments of the text.
If anyone else has strategies that would be helpful please add them.
As to whether you are on the right track, its a reaction paper - there is no right track.
What exactly do you mean by a typical Renaissance piece?
Beware of thinking that Gombert is writing this out of sadness - while he may have been sad, this form of stylized lament was commonplace during this era: see for instance this list in coordination with a concert at UCLA that I found on the internet:
http://www.musicology.ucla.edu/humana-concerts.html
If you're saying that the later piece reflects a more "human"-centric expression of lament than the early one, you'd need to back that up with specific references in the music as well as a well-tuned argument about what actually constitutes "human"-centered lament and how it could be put forth in the music of the time. Put another way, let's assume Ockeghem wanted to have a human-centric lament, could the systems available to him allowed for it and if so what would it be like versus what it is.
A student writes:
I am having a hard time following the words for Gombert. Is it really important that I be able to do so?
My answer:
The words are important. As to whather you can follow the words, yes it is diffuclt. Is it really important that you be able to do so? It depends on how important you think the words are to the meaning of the composition and the conveyance or nonconveyance of the emotions in those words.
the link to the mp3 that you posted is not working...
can i buy it on iTunes? can you give me full info on the song so that i can buy it?
thanks
A student wrote:
So, I know that both of the pieces for the paper are motets, but are
they both isorhythmic?
Second, About the forme fixe of
the ockeghem. It says that it's a ballad, with the A, A', B C thing,
but I'm confused as to where the break ups are in the piece? I think that A is from misere to joyeusete, and then A' is from misere to bonte, but I can't really figure out B and C. And is that even that important?
My response:
You've made a lot of assumptions - first assuming they are both motets, and second that they are isorhythmic.
Motets are sacred, non liturgical polyphony for Mass use. Do either of these fit that category?
In terms of finding the breaks in the music and the breaks in the form of the Ockeghem, look to the poetry especially its rhyme scheme and stanzas. This matches the traditional Ballade rhyme scheme: ABABbcbc.
The form of the music is as you say: AAB, with breaks in the first stanza from A: "Mort" then A: "En desplays" then B: "Son corps"
Is this important - only insofar as you think it is important. This is a reaction paper. It depends on how important you think the use/nonuse of form is to the meaning of the composition and the conveyance or nonconveyance of the emotions in the piece.
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